A Strong Humanist Movement Needs Shared Futures and Practical Services - Lone Ree Milkær, EHSN

Sign up for the Humanists International Newsletter
https://humanists.international/sign-up-for-the-newsletter/

Gary and Leon reflect on the Humanists International quarterly staff gathering in London. Leon updates on the UN Human Rights Council 62nd session, where HI delivered statements on domestic violence and the Istanbul Convention, and supported an Austrian member's statement in the Universal Periodic Review. Gary introduces the upcoming deep-dive episode on the General Assembly.

This week's guest is Lone Ree Milkær, a Danish cultural scholar, folklorist, and humanist movement leader with more than 20 years of experience. Lone served as president of the Danish Humanist Society from 2015 to 2023 and as vice president of the European Humanist Federation. She is the co-founder and network manager of the European Humanist Services Network (EHSN), coordinating 20 European humanist organisations on ceremonies, humanist existential care and chaplaincy, and youth work.

In this episode we cover

• How attending a friend's humanist wedding first brought Lone into the movement — and why her own registry office wedding felt like "sign here and out the door"
• Lone's PhD research: how climate change activism creates livable futures through shared narrative — and what humanists can learn from it
• What the European Humanist Services Network is, how it works, and why it focuses on ceremonies, existential care, and youth
• The challenge of scale: managing a network from the Norwegian Humanist Association (one of the world's largest) to small, newly formed Eastern European organisations
• What's next for EHSN: accreditation of humanist weddings, funerals, and existential care services; a new fundraising working group

Further reading and references

• European Humanist Services Network (EHSN): https://humanistservices.eu/
• About EHSN: https://humanistservices.eu/about-ehsn/
• Danish Humanist Society (Humanistisk Samfund): https://www.humanistisksamfund.dk/
• European Humanist Federation: https://europe.humanists.international/
• Luxembourg Declaration on AI and Human Values: https://humanists.international/policy/luxembourg-declaration-on-artificial-intelligence-and-human-values/

Follow Humanist International

• Sign up for our free Newsletter
• Support Humanists International
• Follow our Campaigns
• About - Humanists International 
• Join us at the World Humanists Congress 2026

This podcast is produced by Humanise Live.

Start your podcast today, visit: humanise.live

🎶Music: Horizon by Simon Folwar

Podcast transcripts are AI-generated and may contain errors or omissions. They are provided to make our content more accessible, but should not be considered a fully accurate record of the conversation.

Transcript

London staff meeting & AI training

Leon Langdon 0:05

Welcome to Freedom of Thought, a podcast by Humanists International. With me, Leon Langdon. And me, Gary McClelland. Each week we'll be discussing news, research, policy developments, and campaigns related to freedom of thought around the world. Later in this episode, you'll hear from our guest, Dr. Lona Ray Milkare, who is a cultural scholar, researcher, and leader in the humanist movement and the global project manager at the European Humanist Services Network. But in the meantime, Gary, what have you been up to? How are you?

Gary McLelland 0:36

I'm well, I think we're all uh we had our staff meeting last week, which I think we may have mentioned in a previous podcast, but uh our quarterly staff get together where all the personnel from around the world meet up in London and we had yeah, about three days together. So we had a sort of management team away day on the Monday. We had a whole day of planning and meetings and things on the Tuesday, and then on the Wednesday we had a morning of well, we actually seemed to take over a local cafe, and there was lots of different bilateral group meetings and things taking place, and then we did a lovely team building exercise where we rented some canoes and we paddled up and then back down. I think it was the River Lee in Hackney in East London, but I can't remember exactly. But it was a very nice experience. But I think, like like we always say, that the meetings were just absolutely packed. We had a slightly lighter agenda than we had had in previous meetings, but even still it the time just goes away so quickly. Um it's such a precious time, I feel, but I think we uh we all got a lot out of it.

Leon Langdon 1:38

I think it's also I think it's a testament to the amount of work going on sometimes is that um on the Wednesday, like Gary said, we had a lighter agenda. And I think in the morning you had like sort of free time before we'd we'd go canoeing of all things. And then, like you said, we ended up there were so many meetings back to back that people were just rotating around a couple of a couple of different tables in in the local cafe nearer. And I think, you know, everyone really relishes the opportunities to get together and to have those conversations. And even even on really little things, like small process things, like I ended up having a conversation about how to go about uploading something because there was a way that that I do it for advocacy statements that that would be useful for the freedom of thought and then potentially save some time. But that's never something you're gonna message someone about because you wouldn't even know to. It's never something that you'd send an email about or have a Zoom call or an online call about. So I think even just little moments like that can maybe highlight the utility of those meetings and and the importance of them.

Gary McLelland 2:35

Yeah, absolutely. And and I I feel really strongly, you know, that we we are an international organization and we we've taken steps to in the staff team to represent that diversity by having staff in different parts of the world. That's a massive strength to the organization, there's no doubt about that. But one of the things that we therefore aren't able to do is to have weekly in-person staff meetings. But you know, we're we're trying really hard to build in more opportunities to do these meetings when we can and and do things like skills sharing where we can share different little insights people have gained into using our different systems. AI training, for example, I think this is something I mentioned before. You know, we we did a whole training exercise last November on AI, where we brought in an expert to teach us about AI tools, guided by the Luxembourg Declaration, and we've been refreshing ourselves on that. It's actually you know something which is quite interesting, is that the speed of development of this technology is very helpful just to keep refreshing our knowledge and our policies and things like that. So, yeah, it's it's an amazing opportunity. And what

UN Human Rights Council session update

Gary McLelland 3:36

about you, Leon? I th I feel like we've been talking about the current session of the Human Rights Council, how are things going there, what's what's happening?

Leon Langdon 3:43

Things have been busy with the Human Rights Council, not as busy as some other months. Some of our members who worked with me and the team before might know that there's a lot of luck involved when it comes to statements of the Human Rights Council. It's effectively a lottery, or there's some sort of prioritization that we have honestly very little insight into. So we've not had as many statements this year. We we had some great statements though. Our new colleague Myth Lee delivered a statement on domestic violence and its relation to religion and patriarchy and sort of the anti-rights movement against the uh Istanbul Convention, which is on the elimination of domestic violence. And then our member from Austria, represented by Andreas, delivered a great statement as part of the Universal Periodic Review. So two really good statements, only two, which I am a bit disappointed about, but like I said, that there is a lot of luck involved, as well as that we've been monitoring probably less closely than other years. I think it's uh a good learning exercise, is it's very hard to be tuned into what's happening in Geneva when you're not in Geneva. So I think some some good learning there in terms of the utility of being on the ground, but working with some civil society colleagues on the end of session statement, as well as meetings with the president of the Human Rights Council and trying to ensure that that civil society is is represented, is visible and is respected at the Human Rights Council. It's been a short session, I think has gone by a lot quicker than probably I I think obviously, you know, it's been a month, but um the pace of it has felt has felt uh particularly quick for for whatever reason. But yeah, some good learnings out of it and and some great statements as always. Yeah.

The General Assembly: humanist democracy explained

Leon Langdon 5:19

And then we've also just passed the 40-day deadline, if I'm not mistaken, Gary, for General Assembly papers, nominations to the board, resolutions. I know we're gonna have an episode at some point this season about the General Assembly as a concept. But um for our listeners who aren't members, if you give a quick primer and and then also just chat about that process.

Gary McLelland 5:41

Yes, so we're recording this on the 7th of July. And yesterday on the 6th of July, we just sent out our papers, agenda, all of the documents to support the um upcoming General Assembly. But yeah, we we had last week a meeting just before the publishing deadline to compile all of the nominations for board elections, all of the member resolutions, policy resolutions, Congress resolutions. So there's quite a lot of kind of governance work that the board is involved in behind the scenes, quite a lot of complicated documents to review and process and things like that. But essentially the purpose of which is to serve the democracy of the organization. So, as is made clear in our bylaws, the General Assembly, which is the annual general meeting of our members, is the sovereign body of Humanists Internationalists from whom we take policy direction, who elects the board that govern the organization, and you know, ultimately we are owned and and and managed by our members, and this is the members' opportunity to um have their say and to ask questions of the board and the staff and so on. So, yeah, there are a lot of um a lot of deadlines and things to be reviewed. But yeah, as you say, we're we're going to do a kind of deep dive on the General Assembly, hopefully in the coming weeks on the podcast, because it's a really an important thing for members, especially new members who maybe haven't been to a General Assembly before or haven't engaged with the process as fully as they might. I think it's really important to make sure that we we give our members the tools and the insight and to be able to participate in this democratic forum. And and of course, one of the things I think we can chew over when we discuss this is the fact that we're bringing together often people from hundred, you know, hundreds of different cultures and experiences and legal philosophies. So to be able to conduct an assembly that that can follow all of these different expectations and experiences is a challenge in and of itself.

Leon Langdon 7:36

I think also um it's not just useful for members and new members, like you say, but also prospective members. If you're in a country that we don't have a humanist organization, I think it's important for you to know that we exist, but also that to be involved in humanists international is not just a it can, if you want to, it can just be a stamp of approval or a stamp of association, however you want to put it. But you know, this is a democratic organization. We're we're kind of quite different to a lot of international NGOs in that way, different to many of my colleagues who would work in other human rights organizations. They don't necessarily work in the same way. But the policies that that I work on that I go to the UN or or other international bodies to advocate on, they they come from the members, they come from actions at the General Assembly, they come from resolutions and policy documents going back in some cases decades, but but generally 10 to 20 years in terms of that's sort of where where we get our mandate to do that work. That's where the priorities of the organization are set. And even to be involved in in voting for the board or running for the board is is similar. You know, there's a governance and oversight that the board have. And that also obviously shapes the direction of our work, be it advocacy, be it research, whatever element of it. So I think to see that that to become a member of Humanist International is to be part of a vibrant and busy and an active democratic community, I think is also something really good to know. Absolutely, yeah.

Introducing Lone Ree Milkær

Gary McLelland 9:02

Dr. Luna Ray Milker is a cultural scholar, researcher, and humanist movement leader with more than 20 years of experience advancing humanist values across Europe. She served as the president of the Danish Humanist Society from 2015 until 2023 and was vice president of the European Humanist Federation, as well as working at Humanist International on cross-national cooperation and capacity building. Lona is the co-founder and currently the network manager of the European Humanist Services Network, EHSN, coordinating 20 members of Humanist International across Europe on strategic initiatives and humanist existential care, chaplaincy, research, and professional practice. She also remains active as a humanist celebrant in the Danish Humanist Society. Welcome, Lona.

Lone Ree Milkær 9:49

Thank you very much.

Discovering humanism through ritual

Leon Langdon 9:50

Lona, that's a very long humanist CV, maybe one of the longest we've had. Going back to sort of the first principles, how did you first figure out or discover you were a humanist and why did you choose to join the movement in a professional capacity?

Lone Ree Milkær 10:06

It is actually kind of related to also my my cultural scholarship because I um grew up in in a very non-religious environment and not thinking about it at all, I didn't define myself as an atheist because it just wasn't relevant in my everyday life. But I missed the ceremonies and rituals that are connected to that world and and was aware of it because of my studies of cultural practices everywhere. So I went to a friend's uh humanist wedding just by chance and thought that was so cool. And I was like, Yes, this is what I needed. It was after my own uh wedding that was just at the as at a registrar's office and where it just sign here and shake hands and uh out the door. So I uh I was like, Yes, I want to join the movement movement that does stuff like that.

Gary McLelland 11:02

That's amazing, and I understand that there's quite a lot of cultural practices of humanism in Denmark that might be different to other listeners are used to internationally. So, for example, perhaps like in Norway there is humanist confirmations, is that right?

Lone Ree Milkær 11:19

Yeah, yeah, that's true. We have a a very rooted tradition in the Danish culturally Lutheran Christian uh society of having confirmations of young people when they're around 14, 15. And when I were in school, I was the only one in my class that didn't get a confirmation because I wasn't religious, and in in at that time, that's a lot of years ago. It was uh very prevalent, and it still is. There's about still 70% of Danes young people will have a confirmation, and the humanists also in Denmark provide that ceremony.

Leon Langdon 11:57

So it

Climate change, narrative, and the loss of the future

Leon Langdon 11:58

sounds like then rather the that your cultural PhD, your cultural history PhD sort of informed coming to humanism then. Could you tell us a bit about that PhD and that research since it it had such a foundational role?

Lone Ree Milkær 12:13

Yeah, this was pre-PHD. This was actually I think yeah, this is just my bachelor's that informed this, and because I'm a folklorist by training. So I studied traditions and um mannerisms and how what constitutes a culture. But my speciality in folkloristics is narrative. So I have a in my cultural studies uh career, I have a a very strict focus on narratives, and that's also what I focused on in my PhD. But the theme of that was um climate change activism. So that's something on on the one hand, completely different from humanism, but of course also very relevant for humanism. So in my PhD I focused on how activists in the narratives that they use in their activism try to connect the past with the future. Because one of the things that is uh that you say about climate change is that it has abolished the future. We don't we are so used to living in a post-industrial modernized narrative about how the future will look like. It will be better, it will be more advanced, it will be technologically more advanced. And that is one of the narratives that climate change has stopped because we don't actually believe that the future will be better. But we can't live in a culturally, we can't live in a world that doesn't have a future. So the climate activists in their activism they create a future that is livable or is just actionable. I mean, they can do something to influence the future, and that is kind of the one of the cultural reasons for doing climate change activism. Not to say it's not to change practices and politics and stuff like that, but narratively speaking, like in the grand narratives, it's also to create a future that uh we as humanity can l can live in.

AI, the compressing future, and the humanist blueprint

Gary McLelland 14:22

That's fascinating, Luna, that the idea of kind of losing the future. One of the things that it makes me think of as well is the current development of AI, for example. I mean, as you were talking there, one of the things I was thinking is when I grew up there there was this imprint in my head, a blueprint, that you know things would get better, and you know, the kind of progressive argument from the 90s and so on. But one of the things I find strange is when we talk about what's happening with AI, it feels like the future is compressing in front of us because we we you know it was what only came online in I think 2022, and the rate of progress seems so fast that it's bending time that the developments aren't happening a kind of linear trajectory. So I wonder is that is there presumably a lot of humanist leaders would fall into that blueprint of having a kind of progressive um view of the future. Do you think there's something that humanist leaders can learn from this loss of the future this way that you've studied in the environmental movements?

Lone Ree Milkær 15:24

I think maybe that we can nuance what progress is and uh actively not bend but try to to to mold the narratives that we uh share about the future. Because I have no doubt that we need common narratives also as a humanist movement. We need to have a blueprint because as humans and also as communities, we can only function if we kind of have a shared blueprint of how we imagine the future. And I think that as as humanists and also in the humanist movement we can be uh better at also formulating what is the humanist blueprint of the future, also in positives. Because I know there's a lot of stuff that it's going on that we need to point out and say this is not good and we d this has to be different, but we also have to to show the blueprint of what different uh looks like. I think that's something that we as a movement could be better at doing.

Gary McLelland 16:26

Very

Inside the European Humanist Services Network (EHSN)

Gary McLelland 16:27

good. And thinking of blueprints, of course, we should talk about EHSN, the European Humanist Services Network, which I think is is a blueprint that that's developing in Europe for a model of cooperation between national humanist organizations. Can you just tell tell our audience? I mean, people who are listening to this podcast, I'm sure everybody has a ticket already for the World Humanist Congress in Ottawa, which I think at the point of publication will only be two or three weeks away. And you'll be able to meet Lona, you'll be able to learn much more about EHSN, which is a sponsor of the Congress. But just tell our audience what is EHSN? How does it work? What does it do?

Lone Ree Milkær 17:03

The EHSN or the European Humanist Services Network is a partnership of European humanist organizations that are all members of Humanist International. That's that's kind of a a shortcut that we took uh in forming the partnership so we don't have to vet every organization, but you can do you guys can do that, and then we'll just trust your uh your opinion on whether or not it's a legitimate organization. And we do. We do trust that. So it's a partnership of uh 20 European organizations that all uh work with uh humanist services, and humanist services is uh understood as offering some kind of uh humanist activity. So it's not uh just talk, or even though talk is also important, but uh in this partnership we choose to um to focus on practical humanism and what humanists do together. And it's uh not an organization that you register for, but it is precisely a partnership, so it's something that you have to the organizations have have signed a partnership agreement to say that they will uh commit to this partnership, but there's no fees and there's no no otherwise uh commitments. We have chosen to to start this uh this partnership focusing on three practical humanist things. Uh one thing is uh ceremonies, we have a group that works with ceremonies, and the other thing is uh what we call humanist existential care, uh chaplaincy pastoral care, it's also um called, um and the last thing is youth work, engaging young people. And behind these three um themes, there is uh I was lucky enough to be able to do uh a scoping exercise and have uh very in-depth conversations with some of the uh interested organizations before the partnership was formed to really uh talk to them about what is it that you could imagine cooperating on, what is the pressing issues in your organization, what what are you really good at? What would you like to develop? Is there something you're curious about? And is there something that you're not good at at all? So the philosophy behind these three themes is that it's something that most organizations is really good at, and that's ceremonies. All the 20 partner organizations uh do some kind of humanist ceremonies, weddings, funerals in the northern European countries, uh as we talked about, confirmations, humanist confirmations. And uh the second uh one, humanist existential care, uh, is the thing that most organizations really want to develop. It's the uh the area of humanist services that has the most momentum right now. It's on on the brink of being introduced in a lot of countries, and it's um it's a practice that is uh easy to to argue that should be introduced because uh you really can't discriminate uh on the basis of uh religion or belief and say we only want Christian uh existential care or we only want religious existential care. So a lot of countries uh are working to introduce this, also they are lobbying politically to to introduce this in their institutions. And the last thing uh with the uh youth work or youth activities, uh that is the thing that most organizations are really bad at or wish that they would be better at. We are kind of a at least in a lot of European countries, I wanted to say geriatric movement that may be taking it a bit too far, but but I mean we we do struggle with engaging young people and this is not particular for the humanist movement. We all know that this is a this is an issue for all organizational activities. You know, in this uh TikTok, YouTube day and age where everything has to be uh one-minute clip, it's hard to this uh committing to a movement, it's not something that is part of youth culture. So so this is this is something that a lot of humanist organizations also struggle with.

Cooperation challenges across 20 organisations

Leon Langdon 21:22

It's such an expansive range of work, Luna. And I think as Gary said, it's a real model for perhaps other members in other regions to do this work. And I know you'll be at the Congress um in Ottawa and around to speak to people, and I think there's some really great opportunities from learning. But in this moment, I guess, what are the main learnings you've had from working with 20 organizations and what challenges have there been?

Lone Ree Milkær 21:45

First of all, I have to say that there's been a few challenges than I expected because all of the organizations really want to cooperate, and that is so great with this work that that I meet a lot of very engaged people that want to learn from. I want to be part of this. Because one of the assumptions behind the network was that there is a lot of organizations doing kind of the same things. And we really should just put them in the same room and get them to talk about what they're doing and sharing experience. And that assumption has proven to be right. I mean, they really want to share, and there's a lot of aha moments for people when they meet, or ah, you have the same challenges, and this is what we've been working at. But well, we do we do this, that worked. And so that has been really great. But that being said, there's of course a lot of different organizations. And of the 20 organizations, there are first of all one of the the largest humanist organization in the world, which is the Norwegian Humanist Association. And that's in one end, and the other end, there are organizations in some Eastern European countries, for example, that are very new and organize very few people and have nothing but ambition about being a humanist organization. And that does not that's not nothing, that's of course everything. But um it's a huge range of scope of organizations. So that has been a challenge. And one of the solutions that we found for this is that the partnership and the activities in EHSN works on an opt-in basis. So to be a partner in the network, you don't have to participate in all of the activities. You actually don't have to participate in any activities if you don't have the resources as an organization to do so. But you can still be a partner and you can still get all of the information and you can listen in on all of the meetings and you can be at the we have a a meeting for the CEOs of the organization each year. All of the CEOs meet and and you can be at the CEO meeting even though you haven't participated in any of the groups that work with the three uh areas of services that I talked about before. And I think that's really crucial that you are you're welcome, even though you don't have the resources to do anything.

Gary McLelland 24:11

Yeah, that sounds amazing. And I think I've been particularly struck, Lona, watching the the development of EHSN with this organic development of it. Um, like you mentioned there, that you know it is developing along the lines of the cooperation that kind of unfolds ahead of itself, you know, which has been very, very impressive to to see. I

What Lone is most proud of & what's next

Gary McLelland 24:33

guess I mean just curious, we've talked a bit about some of the challenges and positives, but what are you most proud of managing this project to have seen?

Lone Ree Milkær 24:41

I'm proud of all of it.

Gary McLelland 24:42

Good answer.

Lone Ree Milkær 24:43

Yeah, but I think I'm proud of the actually setting it in motion because this as I see it, this uh corporation was was ripe. All of the goodwill was there, but somebody had to organize it and say, okay, let's do it this way. Now we just do it and we let's have a CO meeting and put up an organizational model and do it. So I think that's the thing I'm most proud of. Actually saying, okay, let's do it and we'll do it this way, and that it works.

Leon Langdon 25:14

That's great, Lenanda. And I guess looking to the future, what are the sort of within the three working groups, what are the sort of aims over the next however long you'd like to speak about?

Lone Ree Milkær 25:25

One of the things we're working with is uh accreditation of humanist activities. And we did a we did an accreditation model for uh humanist weddings, and we are now moving on to humanist funerals, and we're also doing uh uh accreditation of humanist existential care or chaplaincy services in the organizations. So that's uh one of the things we are working towards. And then we are also uh expanding the the working groups so we will we will now also have a working group on fundraising. So we'll get the 20 organizations to get together and and share experiences in how to raise funds for humanist organizations and maybe do uh do some cooperation on fundraising also in the European organizations.

Gary McLelland 26:16

Very impressive. And as we said before, our listeners will be able to meet you in person, Luna, in Ottawa in just a few weeks.

Congress Invite And Closing Requests

Gary McLelland 26:23

But as we wrap up, is there any last messages that you have for our audience?

Lone Ree Milkær 26:27

Come to the the humanist congress. I think this connection between humanists across national borders and also across organizations, I think is really important because sometimes it it you you can feel kind of alone as a humanist organization in in a country that might not have legislation that incorporates you or it can feel like a struggle. But when you meet other humanists you see that you're not alone.

Leon Langdon 26:55

Thank you, Luna.

Lone Ree Milkær 26:57

You're welcome. Yeah, it was a pleasure.

Leon Langdon 26:59

If you found this episode useful, please share it with others, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave us a five-star rating and review. It makes a big difference in helping new listeners find the show.

Gary McLelland 27:10

If there's a topic you'd like us to cover or someone you'd like to suggest as a guest, you can contact us via the links in the show notes. You can also learn more about Rachel's work at au.org.

Leon Langdon 27:22

To find out more or join Humanist International, visit humanists. Thank you to our producer James and the team at Humanize Live and to the team at Humanist International, without whom we'd have very little to talk about.

Gary McLelland 27:36

Thank you for listening to this episode of Freedom of Thought.